Talk on Fenello Talk

For those interested in world-changing ideas and concepts, I’ve recently launched Fenello Talk, an old-style email discussion list.  Beginning today, I’ll be adding curated content from that list into a new category of my blog called “Talk on Fenello Talk.”

Here is the first entry, beginning with my response to Richard Moore’s post: “The story of my quest for understanding:”

On 11/13/2019 9:20 AM, Richard Moore wrote:

My theories of ‘the problem’ and ‘the solution’ have evolved by this process over the years … Eventually I reached the position that still dominates my thinking: the problem is hierarchy itself … We’ve lived under hierarchy ever since civilization began

On 11/14/2019 12:48 AM, Jay Fenello wrote:

By common definition, civilizations share 1) a hierarchical social structure, 2) a common belief system, and 3) a written language.  That means that every civilization from the beginning of “time” has had some type of centralized authority, supported by beliefs as echoed in their written language.

Note that all three are related.  If someone is able to capture the written language (through censorship or propaganda, for example), they can impact the common belief system, and impact the social order.

Comments to follow:

2 thoughts on “Talk on Fenello Talk

  1. On 11/16/2019 2:27 AM, Richard Moore wrote:

    I find the ‘common definition’ of civilizations to be absurd. It might have some relevance to a single society, a small homogeneous nation, but our civilization today is global, with many localized hierarchies, many different languages, and many different belief systems. Even in a large single society like the USA or China, one does not see all three qualities being shared by the whole population.

  2. On 11/17/2019 2:42 AM, Jay Fenello wrote:

    When does a civilization begin?

    At the hunter/gatherer stage? The tribal stage? At the village level?

    Historically, certain metrics ( have been used to define when a civilization emerges. My list is a condensed version of theirs.

    While I agree with your comments about our current civilization, in your quest for understanding, it would be helpful to understand how we got here. What did hierarchy look like in our earliest civilizations, and how has it evolved over the ages?

    We have many examples (, and much to learn.

Comments are closed.